S15E13 | 25 years of dog photography with Margaret Bryant
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Today’s guest has over 25 years of experience as a pet photographer. Back when she started, pet photography basically didn’t exist. A lot has changed in the photography world since then, but as you’ll hear, a lot of things haven’t really either. I’m talking about Margaret Bryant of Bryant Dog Photography who started out shooting dog sports on film but quickly realised that wasn’t sustainable (for the time) and moved into studio portraits. Since then she’s photographed thousands of dogs in her home studio in Texas and even published a couple of books.
One of which is helpful for us as fellow pet photographers as it’s full of posing tips and other advice. It’s called Dog Photography: How to Capture the Love, Fun and Whimsy of Man’s Best Friend
We covered a lot in this episode, from Margaret’s experiences in the early days of her business, to who our biggest competitor is and how we can book clients anyway. And if you’ve been thinking about offering puppy packages, definitely tune into the second half to hear exactly what Margaret is offering.
We covered:
What did pet photography look like in the 90’s
Photographing dog sports, on film!
Why Margaret changed business models
The reason Margaret opened a home studio
What’s changed in terms of sales over the last 20 years
Where do Margaret’s clients come from
Margaret’s golden rule to survive unexpected difficult times after making it through the GFC and Covid
IN THE MEMBERS-ONLY EXTENDED EPISODE:
How to make it easy to book through your website
How audience can get to know you and like you for a better client experience
The reason a client should choose you (and not their iPhone or AI)
What are “in but not in” photos
How being observant can help your client and your bottom line
Managing expectations for a good client experience
Puppy first year - what it looks like, pricing, structure and why the client can own the responsibility
Dog birthday parties as a pet photographer
Biggest tips for someone wanting to do puppy first year
The impact of AI for us as pet photographers in business
Margaret Bryant
Bryant Dog Photography, USA
My name is Margaret Bryant and I live and work in the Dallas, Texas area in the US. I have been a professional pet photographer since 1998. It was my second career and I have enjoyed every minute of it. I am mostly known for my whimsical studio portraiture, but I also do classic and relationship portraits. Working with the dogs (and some cats) to get the best expressions for their portraits is what makes me feel good inside!
I love to speak and teach and have spoken at many places in the US. I spoke at the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) Imaging USA three times, taught at Texas School of Photography three times, and numerous state and regional conventions.
I also do workshops from time to time, with two other pet photographers.
In my previous career I was a radio engineer, so I am a nerd for sure! What this means is that I am always looking for the easiest, best way to do anything. In my over 25 years as a pet photographer, I have come up with a lot of tips and tricks to make my photo sessions go more smoothly. In addition to sharing that information via speaking and teaching, I also wrote a book about it. “Dog Photography: How to Capture the Love, Fun and Whimsy of Man’s Best Friend”. I wrote another book, but it is mostly stories and photographs.
Here is my obligatory degree information: PPA Master photographer, PPA, Photographic Craftsman, PPA Certified Professional Photographer, and American Society of Photographers Educational Associate. The topic for my ASP-EA paper was “Using Animal Behavioral Psychology and Operant Conditioning in Dog Photography”. Yes I've won awards, lots of them, including the PPA National Award, but I just like sharing my knowledge and experiences, that they might help other pet photographers!
Transcript
Today's guest has over 25 years experience as a pet photographer. Back when she started, pet photography didn't exist. A lot has changed in the photography world since then, but as you'll hear, a lot of things actually hasn't either. I'm talking about Margaret Bryant of Bryant Dog Photography, who started out shooting dog sports on film and then quickly realized that it wasn't sustainable for the time.
And moved into studio portraits. Since then, she's photographed thousands of dogs in her home studio in Texas, and even published a couple of books. One of which is helpful for us as pet photographers, as it's full of posing tips and other advice. It's called Dog Photography, How to Capture the Love, Fun and Whimsy of Man's Best Friend.
And you can grab the second edition on Amazon. I've popped a link in the show notes. We covered a lot in this episode from Margaret's experiences in the early days of her business to who our biggest competitor is and how we can book clients anyway. And if you've been thinking about offering puppy packages, definitely tune into the second half of this episode to hear exactly What it is that Margaret is offering to make those profitable.
Welcome to the Pet Photographers Club. Tune in as experts share their insights to help grow your business with higher sales, creative marketing, and kick arse business strategies. Now onto the show.
Hello and welcome to season 15 episode 13 of the pet photographers club. I'm your host, Kirstie McConnell. And today I'm chatting to Margaret Bryant of Bryant dog photography. Welcome to the club, Margaret. Thank you very much. It's nice to have you on here. Somebody with years of experience to share with us.
Before we get too far into this episode though, Margaret, would you give the listeners a quick overview as to who you are, where you're based in the world and what it is that you offer? So as you said, my name is Margaret Bryant. I am in the Dallas, Texas area, and I started doing pet photography in 1998.
And I didn't do any other kind, I mean, other than for fun, I didn't do any other kind. I wasn't a portrait photographer that changed to pet photography. I did pet photography from the very beginning. And over the years, I decided that I really liked studio photography. So pretty much my specialty is studio photography.
So in way back when you started, What did the pet photography industry look like if anything at all? It it pretty much wasn't there. I originally started out doing dog sport photography. And I was doing fly ball, only because my dog was doing fly ball. And it was very difficult because It was film all film days, no digital cameras back then.
And I don't know how it is in other places in the U S and the world, but in the U S the locations where they do fly ball, the lighting is terrible. And you're talking about very fast dogs and with with very low light on film, it was very challenging and I decided to make a business of it and realized right away that it was not a good business model and turn, turn to portraiture and.
When I looked at doing portraiture, I think that I ran into one other woman who was photographing at the local pet stores, and in my area, I think that was about it. I think there was really only one other person doing it. Now, I knew that in other places in the U. S. there were people that were doing it.
Amanda Jones, for example. I was really inspired by her work. And, there were a few others, some mostly in Seattle Washington State. And, that was kind of about it. So, people didn't know it was a thing. It wasn't a thing, really. Right. Right. It wasn't. It wasn't a thing. I have to break down a few things that you said just then and dive into those a little bit deeper.
So first of all, you said photographing dogs with film, which had not even crossed my mind that, I mean, sports, you know, dog sports, that would have been so hard, like no order. I'm, No autofocus lenses. Is that right? Oh, no, there was, there was that. The problem, the problem was that it was I was using 800 speed film push to 3200, which of course will make it very grainy.
And there were times when I, because the light was so low that I had to pick locations where the dog wasn't moving so much. So in the case of fly ball, it would be the start. when they were at the box getting the ball, but most people wanted to have their dog, you know, flat out running. It was very difficult to get that in focus.
It was mostly a blur because the film wasn't fast enough. I can, yes, I can bring up the shutter speed, but then it's a dark venue. So it w it was very difficult and some venues were better than others, but it was very difficult. But the bigger reason why I stopped doing that was not so much the film.
It was that not that many people wanted to pay for it. That's what made me get into portraiture. Yeah, you mentioned that it wasn't a good business model. So, what, just, you know, humor us. What was the model back then? Like, what were you trying to achieve? How were you even selling the images? Because you shot it on film, so it's not like you could do Immediate reveal.
So what did it look like? Give us a quick overview. So I had had gotten a, an education about how to how I should do this. And so I always did in person sales from the beginning. And what I would do would be the sales session would be about a week afterwards. Now, this is not the, this is when I got into portraiture.
This is not the sports photography. But I would, so I would do, I always did a consultation ahead of time. I did the session about a week later and have him come back. I would show them four by five proofs cause I was still film in the studio and I would show them four by five proofs. You know, it's what you did back then.
Did you do the same thing for the, the sports, the dog fly ball? So what I did for the dog sports is that it was a package and I would shoot as many as I could get. And of course I'm going to overshoot because poor lighting conditions, shooting on film, it was really bad. And basically what I did was they would, for a fee that they would get four good images.
And it could be the dog at the box. It could be the dog flat out. It could be the dog going over a jump. I was not going to guarantee anything because I really didn't know what I was going to get. Okay. Wow. No wonder that was tough to sell. It was, yeah. I did it for two years. But the you know, I would have people that would be very happy with what they got, but.
You know, it's very different than doing things digital and being able to see it right away and, you know, placing your order right away. It was a very different time. Yeah, definitely. I do want to ask you more about then the business model for the studio then versus now, but I just have a couple last questions about About the, the dog sports, because I think it's fascinating to consider, you know, what that looked like back then.
So, okay, we get the idea. It was hard to shoot in the first place, hard to sell, because, you know, you couldn't guarantee anything. And nobody actually bought it.
So I'm interested to know if you were to start today with film, I'm sorry, with digital available, do you think that you would be able to make it work? Continuing doing the dog sports? Most definitely. Because I know several people that are. very successful at doing dog sports because of the fact that digital cameras have so much more, so many more capabilities that film cameras didn't have at the time.
And low light, that's not that big of a problem. And so yes, you definitely could make a, make a career out of that. Now, could you make it just on one sport? No, you'd probably have to do a whole bunch of them. And then that's, that's a whole different, that's a whole different business model to get into doing dog sports too.
I was just interested if, you know, The real reason that you didn't continue with it back then was really the limitations of the gear and the process in, in relationship to the gear, because, you know, you couldn't just show them the images instantly, or if it was something different, but given that you said you could do it today with the current gear, then we know the answer.
So that's interesting. All right. So from there, you. Patch that in after a couple of years you realize that wasn't viable and you've opened the studio or did you start, you know, a studio in your, I don't know, spare room or your garage or something? What did it look like back then? So professional photographers of America at that time used to do a survey of photographers who had a retail location and some who worked out of their home and People who worked out of their home made more money because they weren't paying for the overhead of having a studio outside.
And as much as I think pretty much every photographer would like to have a retail location. It made more sense to do it at home. And I still do it at home. I only now I have a whole separate. Another long story that about how my house is set up. Yeah and so it's really ideal for that kind of thing and you you take more money home So I started out now now in the beginning I would clean out my living room remove all of the furniture so that I could do the photo shoot and After a while, I got tired of that And so I ended up buying a new house where I have a I have a room that's permanently set up for that Okay.
But you're absolutely right. I mean even back then and still today, I think if they do the same survey, I think they would see the same results that lower overheads, more profit makes total sense. Most of us just want a studio for a bit of ego factor. I think let's be honest, nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that, but not great for the bottom line.
All right. So that makes sense that that's why you chose to open. Your studio at home and you've stuck with that. It's worked fine, even if it's, you know, growing with you. That makes sense as well. What has changed in terms of let's just stick with processes for now. From back then, when you first started, you were shooting on film and you had your clients, you know, you shot them in studio.
We're talking about now. You had your clients come back. I think you said a week later, was it to look at the printed proofs? What's changed between that process that you 20 odd years ago. And today, when you, you know, you shoot clients still in studio, but what happens from there on after that, that part in some respects has not changed.
I still have them come back about a week later, mainly because I want to call what I got from the session. And because you show too many images and, you know, people can't make a decision. And so the major, major difference that has taken place as I now project And I've done that for a number of years and when they see them big, they start buying it bigger.
And so that's the main reason, main reason for doing that was showing it, showing it big. But I presume that you're shooting all on digital now, right? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. So, so, so the reason for the, the week coming back in about a week is, Mainly for me, because I want a chance to be able to, like I said, cull the images.
I might have a hundred images, sixty images, and I'm only going to show them twenty or thirty, if that. It depends upon if we've already decided what we're going to do. If we're talking about just for the wall or an album, obviously I'm going to show them more for an album. But I want to, I want to project everything so we can sit down and talk about it and they can.
Feel the images. So Margaret on that note what is it that most of your clients are purchasing from you? Is it wall art that you just mentioned, you know, big wall art, or is it albums, is it a combination? What is your, what is your typical client purchasing these days? Mostly wall art. I lately have been doing Puppy's first year album that I will actually photograph the, the puppy throughout the, their first year and do an album for that.
So that's been a, something I've been doing a lot of recently, but yeah, mostly wall art. Okay. I'm really excited to ask you about the puppy first year. I know the listener will be like, Come on, Kirstie, ask about the puppy first year and I am going to, I promise you guys, but I'm going to save it for the premium members.
So you can hear that in the second half of this extended or the extended part of this episode. If you keep listening, if you're. If you're a member you're able to hear about that then for now, though, I want to stick with some other questions that I've got for the first half. I'm not going to leave you guys with just even though we've already heard some great stuff, I'm not going to leave you there yet.
So, all right. So at the moment, most of your clients, they're, they're coming in, they're having a studio shoot, you're shooting 60, 100 images or something, you're culling it down and then you're showing them about, what did you say? 20 or 30 on a project. Right. Okay. About a week later. Great. And then they're buying predominantly Wal Mart.
Okay. Right. I have to ask you in today's climate, I know you mentioned earlier before we started recording that you are winding down a little bit. And we'll talk about that a little bit more in a moment. But despite that, I know you're still shooting and you're still looking for clients. So what is your best lead source at the moment to find new clients?
Actually it's still my website. I'm not sure that I get that much from social media. It's, it really is primarily my website and it's also networking with other people and clients, past clients will refer new people. I was expecting that. So mostly your website some referrals, not so much social media.
Are you going to events or any of that kind of thing? I used to do a lot of that and I just found that you have to pick the right events and a lot of times those people are not. necessarily your client but doing things where you have auctions, silent auctions, that kind of thing. If you pick the right events especially one where they have to pay to get into the event that's done by, you know, some rescue group or some shelter or something like that, or some animal advocacy group where they have some kind of a big gala.
And they have silent auctions with that. That's another good place to get people that people that sign up. That's really interesting. Just the most recent episode that has has dropped before this one is with Diane guys. If you haven't listened to it, go back and have a listen. She said almost the same thing that then she's, she's just starting out, so she's at the opposite end of.
You know, her career is you, but she was saying she's done these, you know, two big events the year previously. And there was a huge difference between the type of client that came depending on the event. And then the following year she made decisions as to which one she would go back to based off that previous event.
You know, learned information. So I think you're absolutely right. As she was saying, as you were saying, really important to pick the right event. I do want to wrap up part one in just a moment, but before we do that, I want to ask you about the changes that you've seen in business over this time. I know a lot of people, and we're talking about this before we hit record as well, but a lot of people are finding it tough at the moment in different parts of the world.
I know. You know, some people in the UK are saying that in Australia, definitely New Zealand and the U. S. as well. That the economy is suffering and that they're seeing an impact from that in all your years in business, you've seen all the rollercoaster, you know, you've seen the global financial crisis, of course, the epidemic, like all of us pandemic.
And now this time as well, what kind of words of wisdom have you got for people that are feeling a little bit overwhelmed at the moment that are starting to, you know, to worry that that really is having an impact on their business. What do you say to that? So I would say a couple of things. One is always have some money socked away for times when, like during the pandemic, I mean, we were closed.
There was nothing I could do. I was basically closed. And so you have to have. enough money socked away to be able to live on during that time. The other part is that your biggest competition is not another photographer. Your biggest competition is the owner themselves. And these days the cameras are pretty darn good.
And so you have to do something that they can't do. And part of that is going to be the experience that you provide for them. So being knowledgeable about the animals, how you handle the animals, having a style that you have and making the experience something that they're going to talk about and they're going to be really happy that they did.
The images, of course, are going to be beautiful. It's the experience that's going to make the difference. Mm hmm. That really sets you apart and gets people talking about you. Mm hmm. That makes total sense. All right. Margot, I have so much more to ask you, but I really am going to wrap up part one now.
Before we do that though, I would love for you to let the listener know where the best place is to find out more about how you can help them, because I know you can and also where they can see your work as well. My website is BryantDogPhotography. com. My Instagram is Margaret Bryant Dog Photography.
I also teach at various different places and I don't have any, any gigs lined up right now. So but you can always drop me a line for my email address. It's on my website. Perfect. And don't worry if you missed anything, I took all the notes for you as always, including the links just mentioned.
So just head on over to the pet photographers club. com slash podcast. You can just search Margaret and you will find this episode. Otherwise it is season 15, episode 13. So it'd be 1 5 1 3. That's it for part one of this episode. If you are a member of the club, you can continue listening to part two in the member zone or via your private RSS feed in your phone.
Favorite podcast player. Don't forget if you're not a member yet, you can join today. It's just 10 bucks a month. Club membership includes loads of perks and bonus content like the end of this episode. So just head on over to thepetphotographersclub. com slash join to find out more.
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