S15E03 | Your work is already good enough.. focus on connecting with your clients to improve your sales
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Do you feel like your work isn’t good enough, or you have too much competition and you’re unsure of how to stand out or why a client should choose you? In today’s episode with Karinda Kinsler we discussed the real reason clients book you, and in the members half of the episode we delved deep into how you can truly connect with those clients to grow your sales. Between all of that we also covered the mistake Karinda learned from in her previous businesses and the impact of implementing change based on that when launching her equine business.
We covered:
Karinda's journey from livestock photography to newborns and weddings, and into equine
The biggest business lesson Karinda faced
People comprehend in different ways
The rule of 8 in sales
How to prepare your clients to spend without a price list
How to feel comfortable with big numbers
Why would someone choose you?
Clients don’t care how good your work is
IN THE MEMBERS-ONLY EXTENDED EPISODE:
People buy your why
How to connect with your client and make it about them
Building trust with clients
Ask your clients questions and truly caring about them
Client workflow in order to build a relationship
The importance or not of connecting somehow before the first call
Go-to questions for the first call
Mentioned links:
Mindset and Money Mastery for Photographers Podcast
Master your Mind & Money Coaching with Karinda
Karinda Kinsler
Master Your Mind & Money with Karinda K, USA
My secret superpower is helping photographers make more money in their business by mastering their Mindset & Money.
Transcript
Do you feel like your work isn't good enough or you have too much competition and you're unsure of how to stand out or why a client would even choose you? In today's episode with Corinda Kinsler, we discuss the real reason clients book you. And in the members half of the episode, we delve deep into how you can truly connect with those clients in order to grow your sales.
Between all of that, we also covered the mistake Corinna learned from her previous business and the impact of implementing change based on that when launching her equine business.
Welcome to the Pet Photographers Club. Tune in as experts share their insights to help grow your business with higher sales, creative marketing, and kick arse business strategies. Now on to the show.
Hello, and welcome back to the Pet Photographers Club. I'm your host, Kirstie McConnell. And today I'm chatting to Corinda Kinsler of Marcio Mine and Money with Corinda K. Welcome to the club, Corinda. Yes. Thanks for having me. So nice to have you on the show. For the listener, you guys, we were just talking the other day and I realized, Hey, you've actually never been on the podcast.
I've had you at like. The last few conferences and we're trying to organize a meetup for next year. And yet for some reason I hadn't managed to snag Corinda on the show. So I'm excited to have you here today. For the listener who doesn't know you Corinda, let's actually just go. Back to like the very beginning of your photography career and give us just a really quick snapshot of what business looked like for you when you very first started.
Yeah. So this is year 11 in business. I started out as primarily a wedding and a newborn photographer, funny enough. But before I started my business, I actually worked for a livestock photographer and photographed livestock shows. That's something most people don't know about me. I do have an animal science degree.
So that's how I got involved in the livestock show photography thing originally just as an assistant. And then the owner of the company contacted me and was like, Hey, you're taking pictures now. You should come work for us. And I did. And I went and I worked with them and learned so much from them, but I was like, this is really hard working for someone else I could do this myself and Way more money.
So I started my own business and I just went into it totally blindly, not knowing what I was doing. And then after like five years of doing weddings and babies, cause you know, that's what you do when you're a photographer. I thought this is silly. Why am I not photographing what I love, which is horses.
And I made the swap to equine photography and I actually decided to do that overnight. I literally visited Lexington, Kentucky. I was like, this is where my heart is. I love horses. What am I doing? I stayed up all night. I built my website and I launched my brand the next day. So for all of you that are thinking about doing something big and scaring your business, I would say just like stay up all night, launch it, do it.
It doesn't have to be perfect because that's what I did. And it was the best decision that I've made in my business. Yeah. Nice. There is like a Common theme amongst pet photographers that have done something like that. I've noticed we kind of go into two camps, either procrastination central or just rip off the bandaid.
I also came home from quitting my job where I was a photography assistant and editor in a studio. And I came home, I quit my job. My mom, I was super young. My mom came home and she was like, what are you doing? And why aren't you at work? And I was like, I quit. And she was like, what are you doing now? I'm like, I'm building a website.
And it was done by that night. I knew nothing about website building. And that's just my story. You've just told yours. And I've had a few others as well. That's really exciting to see that, you know, if you can keep that mindset and carry that through of that, you've just got to make shit happen. I think we see like, you know, That, that, that takes you quite a distance.
So from that, I guess it was six years ago then, Corinda, that you did that to where you are today, how much has the kind of business model changed in the structure of how you're doing your, your photo shoots, or is it still quite similar? It's a good question. It's actually really similar. I started out doing IPS in the very early years.
It's like. In the first few months, I hired a mentor that did IPS and I was having like lower sales. I think my packages were like 200. So most of my sales were in that range. I used to use printed out proofs and we would literally make three piles with four by six proofs that were printed out. For the most part, like the process is the same, but what happened was I made a really a lot of really terrible mistakes in my wedding and baby business.
Like bad situations with clients or things that were miscommunicated or clients that weren't prepared properly. And essentially through that process, I like fell down the stairs a lot of times and got back up and rebuilt and added in touch points and just kept like trying to make the process rock solid.
So I didn't get in weird sticky situations. So when I relaunched my equine brand or when I launched it for the first time. It was really cool because I got to take everything I knew from launching a wedding and a newborn business and I essentially got to do it right the first time and I didn't have to screw up and also to was like a totally new clientele.
So it wasn't like there were those weird, like growing pains of like starting lower, raising your prices over time. It was just like, here I am world. And I just like. Did it right the first time. So it was a really cool experience. And also to like, I think the wedding and baby industry do a lot of things differently.
And I learned so much from those industries. And then I was like, okay, how do I take this and make it work in the pet equine space, which was also super helpful when I launched that brand. I imagine certainly as well with all that experience with sales in particular and like making all these mistakes, but implementing change afterwards, it gives you like quite a.
You know, a headstart, I guess, in this new brand, but it's not because, you know, you're lucky. It was because you did all the hard yards already. So what's like, I dunno, an example of one of those big mistakes where you fell down the stairs, as you say that you think like if other people can avoid making that mistake, that's just going to help, you know, shortcut, shortcut their path.
Yeah, I think like a lot of times I expected that I would just tell my clients something once or send them the email or the PDF guide or whatever it was. And I would just expect that they would like actually read it and pay attention and remember. And I think the biggest thing I started to learn was.
People don't remember anything, and they don't read anything, especially if you only tell them once. And I also started to realize that people learn in different ways. So you have like visual learners, auditory learners, and actually one of the best way to get people to learn something is to ask them a question about it.
So I started like, over educating my clients in all of these different ways that worked really well for different people's brains. So I might say at one time, I might ask a question the next time I might put it in writing in a paragraph form. One time I might put it in bullet point form the next time, but essentially like.
Anything that's important that they need to know, I started to continually reinforce over and over and over again, like I was banging them over the head with it. And then finally, I got to a place where I was like, Oh, my clients are ready. They're prepared. They're not coming to me like ever saying like, I don't know, or I didn't know this or I didn't know that, because I'm just so good at reinforcing over and over again with them.
So I think that's like the. Biggest thing that really changed my business and helped me avoid bad situations the technically third time around, I guess. So with the third brand. Yeah, I can see that would make a big difference. So what would be an example there Corinda, where, you know, something that you know, that you have to reiterate in every different form for somebody what would be like the number one thing that do not miss.
Yeah. So for me, it's the fact that they're going to spend more money at the reveal and they're going to buy wall art at the reveal. And they're going to buy those albums at the reveal because everything I do is for the sale. And everything serves a purpose to get me to the sale. So every piece of the system is for that end goal.
So essentially, like I'm always constantly reminding them, reiterating planting seeds. about the sale. So every piece of the process, and actually I use the rule of eight. I don't know if you've heard about like the rule of eight and marketing where they say, or in sales, sorry. And the world of sales, they say you have to ask for the sale eight times before you get a yes on average.
So I essentially took that idea when I learned it. And I was like, This makes sense. If I can ask my clients for the sale eight times throughout the process, when it comes time for the sale to actually happen, they're going to be ready to say yes, because I've already asked them all these other times. So that's kind of how I took that rule.
And I used in my business. And I think the real basis behind the asking for the sale eight times is just that people have to be exposed to an idea eight times before they're ready to commit to it. So I think that this kind of is reflective in a lot of places in our business, from our sales process to our marketing, even before our clients even contact us, they need to be presented with a chance to buy from us eight times before they're ready to buy from us often.
So I use that a lot. And I always am asking myself, am I doing this at least eight times? And really, I should do it more than eight times. Because if I mess up a couple of times, or if I forget a couple of the steps, I know that there's still eight things to fall back on. So that's kind of how I think about reiterating to my clients.
I find it really interesting that you use Or that that is your primary thing that it, that you said, you know, the biggest change that you did was making sure that, you know, you used a different language that spoke to every type of client in every kind of way to talk about what they're going to buy.
But you don't have a price list that you show your clients and you don't send any PDFs and you don't, anything like that, you don't do, I'm aware of that much now the listener is as well. So what is your approach to making sure that they've. You know, they understand that it's going to be a big spend without actually showing them the numbers.
Yeah, so I don't have a price list. That is correct. A lot of people hear that and the eyes pop out of their head. But the reason is a price list is just like a bunch of random numbers and it's like reading a different language for people. They don't really understand it. So instead what I do is I talk about things in a way that's It's easy for them to understand.
So if I, if I show you a price list that says like 40 by 60 canvas is 6, 000, you're probably going to look at it and be like, that girl's crazy. But if I'm having a conversation with you and I'm getting to know you and I'm, you know, asking you about your needs and your wants and your desires. And then I say to you, Hey, I know you told me about how special it is that you love to go hiking with your dog up this mountain.
I know you said you have this space over your fireplace that you were saying you might like to put a portrait. You know, I think if we did a really cool portrait of you and your dog hiking up the side of that mountain, a really big vertical image, probably like 60 inches or so over that fireplace, I think that would just make your heart sing each and every day.
And then when we come to talk about pricing and I say, Hey, by the way, based on what we talked about putting that giant 60 inch canvas over your fireplace, you're probably going to invest around 6, 000 on a piece of art like that. They get it. And all of a sudden that 6, 000 is like, Oh, of course, no big deal.
That's going to be amazing and epic and like so cool. And I can see it. And now I can't unsee it. So I have to have it. So it's just like talking about your pricing with context. with emotion, with value, painting the picture of it, and then sharing the investment on that, but doing it from the very first conversation.
So this starts like from the time that your client contacts you when you get them on the phone, or when you send them booking information, whatever it is for you, that starts there. And then the rest of the process, you're just reinforcing that idea. You're just talking about that again and again, and again.
So when it comes time to swipe their credit card for 6, 000 for one photo, they're like, cool, here it is. And they don't think about it because they know. So it's really just about putting it into a way your clients can understand it. Okay. So I'm hearing the listeners all being like picking up their jaws from the ground.
Especially if they haven't tuned into, you know, one of our conferences or somewhere else that they've heard you on your own podcast. So, okay, it just, let's back up a step first of all, for, yeah, for anybody that's listening, that is thinking, Holy crap, how would I ever be comfortable enough to say to my client, Oh, and by the way, that canvas that you really want, because I've told you how much you really want it.
That's going to be six grand for that listener, for the person saying like shit, will I ever be able to say that? Or do I have to have prices at six grand? But let's pretend that they do. Okay. Let's pretend everybody wants to be selling a 6, 000 canvas or whatever it is. How, you know, how do you respond to that?
How do you say to them, how do you, how do they deal with that feeling uncomfortable around it? Yeah, so this is a mindset thing. 100 percent a money mindset thing. I had Corinda six years ago could not have said this, what I just said, I would have like been talking on this podcast, just saying 6, 000 would have made me cringe.
It's a money mindset thing. So first of all, it's a mindset thing. And if big numbers scare you, or if you hear somebody say big numbers, or you think about saying big numbers, and it terrifies you, you need to consider why on earth it scares you because Number one, by being scared of big numbers, you're just leaving money on the table and you're also saying like I don't want to make a lot of money because I'm scared of money so therefore I'm not going to put those high price things on my price list.
So there's a lot of mindset stuff that goes along with that to begin with. But secondly, like, If it scares you and you're like, I don't know what to do, just put it on your price list. Put a luxury product out there. Put those high end products out there that you're thinking and looking at, like, those are really pretty, but my clients will never buy them.
Just put it on your price list. If they never buy them, so what? But I can guarantee you, you'll finally sell one. And then you'll be like, Oh, I'm addicted. This is the best. Thing on earth. I cannot even imagine what this will be like when every client buys these and then you will just absolutely fall off the cliff and just be all into those expensive products, but in the beginning, it's normal to feel uncomfortable.
And I think that's okay to feel that way. If you're considering a change, like in your pricing or your system, and it feels easy, it's probably not a big enough change. You need to like, okay. Be okay with being just uncomfortable a little bit and pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone or else you'll just always play it safe.
And I think that applies to products, client experience, pricing, picking up the phone to call a client. That's like the number one thing photographers tell me they're terrified of as well. Calling a client. It's okay. It gets easier, but just do it the first time. Okay. So what about then to the people saying, but my clients will never pay 6, 000 for my photos because my photos are not worth 6, 000.
Oh, I think that's a great question. So I was on the phone the other day with somebody and they kept bringing up the quality of their photos. And I just kept saying to them, Your clients don't know. They don't care. You'll, I'm sure, learn soon enough that if you accidentally don't cull one photo that's like slightly out of focus or maybe wasn't the best photo and you don't love it, your client will pick that one as their favorite.
Which proves that your clients know nothing about the quality of your work. They will always pick the slightly out of focus or slightly soft or the picture you meant to cull and forgot to cull and then you're In the heat of the moment, you're real and it comes up and you're like, Oh God, that's terrible.
And your clients, that's my favorite picture in the world. And you're cringing because you know, it sucks. So your clients don't know. And the truth of the matter is that they are not professional photographers. They are not award winning artists. They are not on the board judging print competitions or anything like that.
So they don't know. And what I would say is that your clients are buying the emotion. They're buying the experience. They don't care if your pictures are good enough yet. And if you're on Facebook, you see people post really terrible pictures all the time, and all their friends are like, These are so beautiful!
And you're just like, They look like aliens, or they look half dead because their skin is blue. But everybody tells them how beautiful they look anyway. So I think that really proves the point of your clients don't know, nor do they care. So just go put it out there and start making more money while you're learning and getting better.
Yeah. I think that's really great advice. And I was laughing so hard when you were saying like, you know, your clients don't know. I've clearly been of that mindset for a long time and probably. Guys don't necessarily do this like I did, but I didn't put any time or educational effort into improving my photography ever.
I've never done that. I started for two years, I got my diploma, and then I just ran with those skills and I realized just yesterday because I was, Uploading the photos that I took last week or the week before, when I was in Austria with a bunch of other pet photographers, big names, guys that you all know and you all love the work of, and I also love the work of, and we all shot like the dogs that were there all at the same time with the same lighting conditions, with the same background, with the same dog model, everything.
And I also took a couple of photos and I uploaded them yesterday and I was looking at them and I was like, I'm not sharing these with the guys. They're real photographers. They can see everything that I can see that's wrong in this photo. Not like my normal clients. They would just be like, Oh, little Mickey is so cute.
But these clients, they're not real clients. They will just. My friends, but they can see it. And that's when I realized how much I rely on my clients, not seeing the photography, the same way we do. And the truth is your photographer, your, sorry, your clients, as you were just saying, Corinda, our clients are not photographers unless you're in that situation, but guys, these were not.
These people are not paying me. We're just hanging out. So yeah, I totally agree with that. That, you know, in order to make money all you have to do is capture that connection and that personality that, that the, the pet owner sees in their own pet and, and then that's it. That's all that they need really. I want to go into this a little bit deeper Corinda, and talking about why people would choose You and you know, buying, buying your why and all of this kind of thing that we mentioned to this, you know, to each other before we press recording.
I want to get into that deeper, but I am going to save that for the members. And a bunch of other things that I want to ask you in that half of the episode as well. So for now, we're going to wrap up part one. Before we do that, please tell the listeners Where they can find you, how they can hear more of your great information that you have to share and knowledge.
And and then we'll go from there. Yeah. So our coaching program is called master your mind and money. We have a podcast called mindset and money mastery for photographers. So make sure you check that out. And listen, because I actually have a whole episode about why I don't use a price list. So if your eyes are still popping out of your head, check that one out because it will bring a lot of clarity to that topic.
Awesome. And don't worry guys, if you missed anything, I did take all the notes for you. So just head on over to the pet photographers club. com slash the dash podcast. And you can search for Corinda. There should be season 15, episode three, if you want to search by episode number instead, that is it for part one of this episode.
Of course, if you are a member of the club, you can continue listening to part two in the member zone or via your private RSS feed in your favorite podcast player. Don't forget, if you're not a member yet, you can join today. It's just 10 bucks a month and membership includes loads of perks and bonus content.
So head on over to the pet photographers club.com/join to find out more.
Thanks for listening to the Pet Photographers Club. To subscribe to the podcast, check out other episodes, and keep up to date, head to the pet photographers club.com.