S15E05 | Is it really the economy or have we just become lazy in business?
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Are you blaming the economy, or the Facebook algorithms for your lack of leads and clients? The tough love in this episode with Johl Dunn is for you. There was lots of real talk, and actionable ideas shared by Johl who ran a photography business for 22 years- pre-Facebook, through the GFC and during Covid too.
WE COVERED:
What is mindset
Examples of impact of mindset change
Why is now so hard
Are there still people who can afford photography
IN THE MEMBERS-ONLY EXTENDED EPISODE:
So how can we get in front of these people
What comes first when re-launching your business
These marketing ideas you mentioned: it’s a lot to be doing on the side of another job.. So what do you recommend
Fundraisers on steroids
Mentioned links:
!! GIVEAWAY!!
Johl is giving away TWO FREE 30 minute coaching sessions to one lucky PPC listener!
Johl Dunn
JD Mindset Coaching, Australia
Johl has successfully operated both wedding and portrait photography studios for over 20yrs and has now turned his hand to helping other photographers grow their passion into a fulfilling & thriving business.
Now a full-time mindset and business coach Johl helps ambitious photographers build highly profitable businesses by creating a sales & marketing engine as well as completely rewiring their subconscious programming & limiting beliefs. It is a process that is designed in a particular order to slowly move his clients through changing habits, routines & thought patterns so new opportunities & ideas surface and their businesses start to thrive. It’s a holistic approach that reduces stress, achieves balance, enhances fulfilment & brings about wild business success.
Transcript
Are you blaming the economy or the Facebook algorithms for your lack of leads and clients? This episode with Joel Dunn is for you. There was lots of real talk and actionable ideas shared by Joel who ran a photography business for 22 years. That is pre Facebook through the GFC and during COVID too, but before we get into it, I wanted to make sure you check the show notes as Joel is giving away two 30 minute coaching calls to our listeners.
Just head on over to thepetphotographersclub. com slash. Podcast slash 1505 for the link to enter.
Welcome to the Pet Photographers Club. Tune in as experts share their insights to help grow your business with higher sales, creative marketing, and kick arse business strategies. Now onto the show.
Hello, and welcome back to season 15, episode five of the Pet Photographers Club. I'm Kirstie McConnell. And today I'm chatting with Joel Dunn of JD Mindset Coaching. Welcome back to the club, Joel. Thanks for having me. Glad to be back. So nice to have you here. We were just chatting for like 25 minutes before we pressed record.
So I feel like we should have recorded then and just chopped the sections out because we covered a lot. As usual, you do have, you know. Heaps to give. Heaps to talk about. First of all, before we get into everything can you give a bit of a backstory for anybody that doesn't know you yet? Maybe they haven't heard your, heard you here before, who you are, how you ended up doing what you're doing now, and what is it that you're actually doing?
Yeah. Thanks. So yeah, my name's Joel. I'm a business and mindset coach based in Melbourne, in Australia. So I ran a wedding and portrait studios for 22 years. Before finishing that up last year. So I've been coaching for about since 2017. So about six years and I was doing both for a while. It started as a bit of a side hustle, to be honest, and just sort of organically grew from there and to a point where.
I found that I was getting annoyed having to leave doing the coaching stuff to go do photo shoots. So that's when I knew it was time to sort of really switch just into the coaching. The reason I guess I got into it was because I made a lot of mistakes and through my business journey and my photography and I really wanted to fast track and help people not have to make the same mistakes or take as long as it took me to start getting results and making money in the business and Yeah, that's the, I guess the really rewarding aspect of it is just seeing.
People totally transform their businesses and their lives and their mindset around who they are. So you actually specialize in your coaching now entirely on mindset. What does that mean? That seems like quite a, you know, what do you call that? Like a, a fun word at the moment people are loving to use. And I feel like it's being used in every which way.
What does it really mean and what does it mean from Joel Duck? Yeah, I think it's, for me, it's really a big integral part of what I do with my coaching is you as a business person, how you're showing up has a really powerful impact on the results you get. Now, obviously I teach strategies and processes around marketing and sales, but we really start with the mindset.
Now, what that is for me is how, what's going on in your mind and how that's affecting. Your life and your business and what's showing up. So that's things like what limiting beliefs and what things are holding you back from actually achieving what you, we can in life and business and how to move through those blocks and how to get out of your comfort zone and really unpacking that.
And making your, not just your business, because it's like, what's going on in your head shows up in every area of your life. So what I find when I'm working with clients is their businesses improve, but also their relationships improve. They're happier, they're less stressed. So that's why it's so powerful.
Mm hmm. So give me an example of what a... Limiting belief might be that's holding somebody back in their business. People in my area won't pay. That is a big one, or, you know, I'm not good enough photography yet. I haven't been doing it long enough. All those things can really show up. And whatever you believe to be true is actually what will show up.
So if you believe people won't pay your prices, they won't, it's simple as that. Cause that's just a belief you have when you can shift those beliefs. That's when things open up and that's where. When we, if we want to get a bit woo woo here, you're showing up with a different energy and you're attracting different people and circumstances and things to you that get a different result.
So whatever, I guess, thought patterns and your thoughts that you're having. That's what shows up in your life. So when we can shift and change those different things show up in your life, different people, different opportunities and different results. Even like imagining as you say all of that, you know, there was a time when I used to say on the, on the initial call with a lead, I would say on the phone something like okay, Princeton prices start from X, but of course you don't have to spend anything.
And I, that was like, you just said, like, that was me, that was me being afraid that people didn't want to spend. And so I'd say that, and then that was okay to them then. And so that would, then I had to try to undo all of that in the rest of the process in the workflow. Right. And it's an uphill battle and just getting, if I had have earlier got past that in my head, that I'm blocked.
Why would somebody call you if they didn't want your prints, you know, or why would they sign up or whatever it might be? And so I didn't have to give them that, like, It's okay not to spend because then I really told them it's okay not to spend. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Have you seen like real life examples?
I mean, you must have, can you give me some real life examples, some other ones that maybe you've seen when, when you're coaching students have implemented everything they've learned, they have done the work on their mindset. Well, kind of like, I don't know if there's a way to. To break it down and say like numbers wise or just lifestyle wise or what kind of difference you've seen?
Well, one that just comes to mind, cause I literally just had a call with her like just before we got on our calls. I was very new in my mind, but she was she's from the UK, lovely, lovely lady. And she's doing a family shoots and stuff. She's got a lot of money blocks and a lot of sales blocks and I was talking to her about her process and she said, okay, I'll do the shoot and we're changing our process.
We're, you know, through that, you know, halfway through that process. And she goes, then I send them the gallery and let them look at it. And then I call them a week later to book in their sales appointment. I'm like, whoa, well, why, why are you doing that? Like it, she goes, well, I don't want to. Make, I don't want to be pushy and I don't want to like be salesy make sure they've got plenty of time to look at it and unpack it and then I come on the, and she goes, but I'm having trouble getting them.
On a call to get them back in for the sale. I said, of course you are. They've already got that First initial hit of excitement. They've seen the photos and everything and then why are they going to call you back? Like they've got no time pressure, right? And you're making it a lot harder for them because they see it and then they're confused Then you have to come back and do a sale and it was because of her beliefs about not wanting to pressure And just like you said she was saying exactly the same thing There's no pressure to buy and she kept reiterating that So people weren't buying, because they were just taking their free printing.
So what we've done, she's just done the first one without that process now, like as we got on the call. And she did, I think she was doing 600 pound average, and she just did a 2, 300 pound sale without that middle step and without saying. You know, you don't have to buy. So just shifting a couple of things and it was really, really uncomfortable for her.
Like, she was, she said it was, she was so nervous because she felt like she didn't want to be pushy and all those things. But the client loved it because she's not a pushy person. And the process is very up front that we teach our clients, like talking about price and everything. She was just getting in her own way with her own mindset.
And that happens so often. Like it's not the client that aren't buying. It's you putting your limiting beliefs and money blocks onto your clients. That's why they're not buying. And in fact, on the surface, that's such a small change, like just changing your wording and then removing. One step in your process, that's such a small change, but I imagine for her to get to that point of being ready to make that change, it took a lot of work from, from her, I imagine.
Yeah, it did. Well, the interesting thing is, like I said, she only had done that, taken that step out with one client, but she's still doing it with other clients, right? So on that call, she sort of didn't realize this until we unpacked it, but I go, you didn't do it with this one client and look at the results.
But then you've gone back and you're still doing it with other clients. Why is that? And she didn't really even realize, but I think it's like, Oh, but they were past clients and they were this, and she had excuses for why that was happening. But it was really powerful to get her to realize. And one thing that resonated with her when we broke it down is around money.
I said, money money is just an exchange of energy. And that really resonated with her. Instead of putting all this pressure on money, it's like it's literally an exchange of energy. You do something for someone, you supply a product, and a, you know, and a service, and they give you a certain amount of money.
That's all it is. We put all this... You know, I know, I know what you'd call it. You put us pressure on money, but it's literally an exchange of energy and that's it. I imagine that would be like quite a impactful thing. Like, and you in fact said that for her and for other people that are in that state at the moment where money is this big deal for them and they find it hard to take money or charge for their services.
Just. Finding a way to realize that, that must have a huge, huge impact. So Joel, you mentioned very briefly in your little introduction to yourself that you were actually in business for 22 years in Melbourne, Australia, which as we were chatting before this recording began is like gray and miserable for the whole of winter.
And then can be extremely hot in the summer. So, you know, we do have some limitations with weather like many other places in the world. Now, if we compare that. 22 year period, which is quite a lot to current day, what photographers are seeing, because now you're seeing, you know, you're hearing from lots of different photographers all over the place with with your coaching students, the difficulties that we're seeing right now, which many people will tell you all about how did they compare to what you've seen as a business owner, as a photographer over that 22 year period, is this unprecedented for real?
Like we're all telling each other. Or. Is it, is it something that's just part of being in business? It's definitely part of being in business. Like it's everything has cycles, but the interesting thing is, I think we've been in such a amazing economic cycle for such a long time that most people in business have probably only been in business maybe less than five years.
So they've only known the good time and also only known. How amazing Facebook was and how easy everything was and people who have been in business as long as I have, have seen, you know, from when we went from analog to digital, like that was a massive shift in the whole, not economy, but in our industry.
And then you've got the global financial crisis that was huge at the time and there's all these ups and downs. And now we're seeing another one. So. I think, I think it's twofold at the moment, it's obviously there's economic pressure with interest rates and stuff, but also Facebook isn't working like it used to, and it's sort of that two things coming together is really worrying for photographers.
Now, there's some photographers that are really struggling, but others are flourishing and why is that? So, it is because I think that so many of photographers have got lazy. And I'm just doing one thing and like, okay, I'm doing Facebook ads and now they're not working. They freak out. When I was starting business, it was drummed into me to have five to seven different marketing streams at any given time that you can rely on.
Cause if you rely on one and it doesn't work, like if Facebook. Packed up and just disappeared, like tomorrow, I hazard a guess that 90 percent of photographers would go out of business very quickly because they're so reliant on that. So it's about diversifying and looking at other avenues and asking different questions, like instead of Facebook isn't working anymore, it's like, okay, why isn't it working anymore?
What else can I do or what else is out there? But this is just a fluctuation and I feel like. To be fair, we're on the, the back end of it. I think the hardest part of this economic cycle is already behind us. And we're on the upside again. And actually, I know, yes, the numbers show that a lot of people are struggling right now.
Interest rates in Australia in particular, but I know other parts of the world as well are crazy, et cetera. There are people that are finding it financially tough right now. That's fine. We can all accept, but there are also people who are not finding it tough and We seem in our industry, and I don't know if it's also in other industries, but at least as photographers, we always seem to be talking about that.
There's this large portion of the population that are struggling, but not the portion that aren't. And it become really evident to me because I'm here based in Italy and. This is the biggest tourism season they've ever seen here in Italy. And I was in Florence on Saturday, which is supposed to be like, you know, beautiful, small city.
And it was absolutely packed. My husband went to school there for three years and he said, I. Do not have any memory of Florence ever looking like this, like this is absolutely ridiculous. It was packed and they're all tourists. And so people can afford to go to Florence, which is crazy expensive, by the way, like to stay there.
If people can afford to go to Florence from all over the world, those same people can still afford a photo shoot, right? Yeah, correct. Like, I think the other thing is the media play into this fear so dramatically. And like, if you fade into the fear of. The news cycles, the fear of the photography Facebook groups that all the naysayers and people, the doomsdayers are on there, there's a lot of them, then you start to feel like that's reality.
But like in Australia, for example, like yes, interest rates are super high, but compared to 10 years ago, they're super low, right? And also, something like only, I can't even remember the stats, I should have. I should remember this, but it's like, I don't know, 40 percent of people got a mortgage. So 60 percent of people that interest rates are not really having much an effect on, for example, and why is like, I've got clients or past clients that having record years and, but they're, I guess the people that are drowning out the noise, all the people saying how bad it is, right?
So you can't hear the voice of these people saying, well, we're having record years. Like you said, there's so many people with money. You just look on Facebook and look at people traveling and yes, photography is a luxury item, but if you market really effectively and you have a really powerful process in place, you're going to still get the amount of clients you want.
Like it doesn't matter what the economy is doing. Exactly. And I was about to say, you just mentioned that, like the number of clients that you want, and that's something I think it's really important to keep in mind. Isn't it like, we're talking about the entire population, 40 percent are affected, are affected, maybe 40 ish percent are affected by interest rates and maybe some other portion are affected by cost of living, et cetera.
But at the end of the day, we don't need a hundred percent of the population. We need how many clients, most of us were a hundred, maybe a year, some people more, some people 40. I mean, not many. In our area. No. Well, I think that's really, like you said, it's really important to understand. I do a little graph sometimes on Zooms and I know this is not a video, it is for us, but not for your people.
But like you just draw a circle on a piece of paper and that's the population of your area. Then you put a little dot on it and that's about what you need as a photography business to survive, which is like you might have 200, 000 people in your area or whatever, and you only need 20 or 50. It's such a small amount and you like one a week or whatever it might be for you.
Like I remember when I had my photography studio at one stage we were doing 300 portrait shoots a year and then over time we shifted that to about 200 then we kept the more the averages went up we dropped that so we needed less and less. So, coming from a mentality of having to have 300, then we, I think at the end, we're about 120.
It was so easy for me. It's like, well, God, that's a third of what we used to do. This is easy. Like, and it's refining your process so you're getting the right people through. And yes, you have to put a lot of, out there and talk to people to get the right people through. But when you've got the process in place, only the people that are right for you will come through and they all spend the money you need.
I want to dive deeper into that, Joel, particularly like how we can get in front of these people, you know, it's only a small portion, but still, you know, they're like, it feels like a needle in a haystack sometimes. So I want to get deeper into that, but I'm going to save that for the members. So let's wrap up part one now, before we do that, please, can you tell the listeners where they can find you, what it is that you offer and how you can help anybody that might be stuck with their mindset or marketing?
Yeah, I think the best place is probably Instagram, because I put a lot of, I guess, free content out there and tips and tricks and different things. That's just Joel Dunn, which is spelt weird, like J O H L D U N N, and obviously any questions, feel free to DM me. I'm happy to talk, and if you're looking at coaching, you know, just my...
Philosophy around this is it's a 12, I do a 12 week program. Cause it's a real deep dive one on ones don't really work. You need a three month process to really shift and evolve your business. So that's what I offer. And yeah, I'm happy to talk to anyone. I'll give more information, just DM me and I can send you some information off that if anyone's interested.
Perfect. And I'll pop all the links to Joel's website and to his Instagram and anything else that we might mention throughout the episode in the show notes as. Always, so if you're looking for those, just head on over to the pet photographers club. com slash the dash podcast, such Joel, which is J O H L.
That's it for part one of this episode. If you're a member, of course, you can continue listening to part two in the member zone or via your private RSS feed in your favorite podcast player. Don't forget, of course, if you're not a member yet, you can join today. It's just 10 bucks a month and club membership includes loads of perks and bonus content.
So head on over to thepetphotographersclub. com to find out more. So also I'll give away two 30 minute coaching sessions, one on one coaching sessions. So to go through anything around marketing, sales mindset, obviously. So I'll give you the link, make them click on that and enter the draw. And we can pick that out after this drops as well.
Awesome. Thanks. I'm sure there's going to be some pretty happy people listening to this episode that are going to jump on those and I'll make sure to pop. A link directly in the newsletter and in the show notes as well guys so that you don't miss out on that. But get on it as soon as as soon as you see this.
Thanks for listening to the Pet Photographers Club. To subscribe to the podcast, check out other episodes, and keep up to date. Head to thepetphotographersclub. com