S15E07 | Pet Photography Success in a Developing Country
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Today’s guest has been a working photographer for almost 20 years. She started out in weddings in the UK and switched to portraits when she moved to South Africa. Fast forward to today, she’s reworked her pricing structure to ensure her business is profitable with the 150 clients per year she shoots for, 80% of which are pet shoots. I’m talking about Emma O’Brien of Emma O’Brien Photographer.
I’m sure you’ll be impressed as me to learn that she doesn’t do any paid marketing but instead uses a strategic networking approach to ensure her calendar is full so if you’re looking for free marketing strategies, but sure to listen to the second half of this episode where we go into those in detail.
What we covered:
When and why Emma introduce pets
Studying photography and is a diploma still necessary
Why to stop looking at other photographers work
How to avoid creating work that looks just like everyone else’s
Using the move to South Africa from the UK to start fresh
Burn out
IN THE MEMBERS-ONLY EXTENDED EPISODE
Emma’s change in business model to make more money
Working with a coach
How Emma worked out she needed to double her prices
South African incomes
How does the that affect your marketing
Knowing your ideal client
What are business card drops and why do them
Collaborations with other brands
How many clients is Emma photographing per year, and what percentage are for pets
Emma’ shelter work and the bonus marketing that comes from that
MENTIONED LINKS:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emmaobrienphoto/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/emmaobrienphotos/
Website: https://emmaobrien.com/
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Emma O'Brien
Emma O'Brien Dog Photographer, South Africa
I have been working as a full time professional photographer for almost 20 years. I started my career shooting UK weddings and after moving to South Africa in 2009 I shifted to newborn & family portraits. After adopting Jeremy the Dachshund from my local SPCA in 2011, I very accidentally fell into dog photography and it's been my main passion ever since. I shoot commercial work for big pet brands as well as private client commissions and I've built a recognisable and very popular brand here in SA.
I self published my first book, Mutts, in 2017 and I'm an enthusiastic advocate for shelter dogs ( we have four rescues) and I regularly volunteer my time at my favourite shelter CLAW (Community Led Animal Welfare) to photograph the dogs in need of homes.
I always have some sort of creative side project on the go. I created a series about Black Dog Syndrome which went viral in 2019 and is the topic of my TEDx talk, I shot a series of work in collaboration with the South African Guide Dogs Association earlier this year and I'm fortunate to have an exhibition space in Johannesburg to put on an annual show (I'm currently working on a theme for 2024).
Alongside my photography business I also offer personal development and business coaching.
Transcript
Today's guest has been a working photographer for almost 20 years. She started out in weddings in the UK and switched to portraits when she moved to South Africa. Fast forward to today, she's re juggled her pricing structure to ensure her business is profitable with the 150 clients per year that she shoots for 80 percent of which are pet shoots.
I'm talking about Emma O'Brien of Emma O'Brien Photographer. And I'm sure you'll be as impressed as I was to learn that she doesn't do any paid marketing, but instead uses a strategic networking approach to ensure her calendar is full. So if you're looking for free marketing strategies, be sure to tune into the second half of this episode where we go into those in detail.
Welcome to the Pet Photographers Club. Tune in as experts share their insights to help grow your business with higher sales, creative marketing, and kick arse business strategies. Now onto the show.
Hello, and welcome to season 15, episode seven of the Pet Photographers Club. I'm your host, Kirstie McConnell. And today I'm chatting to Emma O'Brien of Emma O'Brien Photographer. Welcome to the club, Emma. Hi Kirsty, thank you very much for having me. I'm really looking forward to our chat today. And first of all, I just want to thank you publicly for being so patient.
You guys listening, you wouldn't believe like everything that can like be a drama with this podcast has been in trying to get Emma on the show. All my fault, not hers. And anyway, we have managed to see Press record and we're going to make it happen. So if you hear tick tock, I mean like tap, tap, tap in the background, it's my sister's dog.
I'm here in Australia at the moment and she's not used to having to be quiet for me to record. So apologies in advance to all of you and Emma as well. But enough about me. Let's get straight into this. So Emma, for the listener who has never heard of you before. for you've been a professional photographer for quite some time, and you've moved your business from one part of the world to another.
Tell us more about all of that, where you are in the world now and what it is that you offer. So thanks for the intro. So I am British. I grew up in the UK and. I moved to South Africa in 2009. So I'm currently halfway between Johannesburg and Pretoria. So I started my career as a wedding photographer in my early twenties.
We might get into that Kirsty. I kind of just picked up a camera, shot two weddings and assistant. As an assistant for somebody and thought, hang on a minute. I think I can do this and sort of started my business up like that. So we won't talk about what those initial few first weddings might've looked like.
Cause I think we can all probably imagine. And then I just kind of built my business. From there, really, I did do a, a, a, a diploma in photography, so I'm, I'm, you know, I've been doing this for nearly 20 years, so I'm going to show my age when I tell you that we started off when I was at college shooting on film, processing stuff in the dark room.
So. That's been quite influential in my career. I think having started shooting on film and yeah, and then I moved to South Africa in 2009, I'd got to the point where I absolutely hated shooting weddings. So I retired from wedding photography when I moved here and. I started doing kind of family and, and baby photography and the dog photography happened completely by accident.
So I went to adopt a dog from my local SPCA in 2010, I think it was. And whilst I was there, I said to them, look, I'm relatively new here. I'm a photographer. Can I help you? Fundraise, we came up with the idea to shoot an annual calendar, which we've just done the 2024 one has just come out and the rest is history really.
So it was never an intention to photograph animals. It just kind of happened. And then from the calendar, I started to get commissions from people and I started to do other stuff for animal shelters, and that's really how I've built my. Career and my business and my presence here in South Africa started out from doing charity work.
Yeah, and then it's, it's, here we are, it's 2023, end of 2023, so I've been pretty successful here. I think from sheer tenacity, really. And... Yeah. So, so I, I photograph dogs for the most part these days. Okay. I have so many questions out of all of that. So let's unpack it a little bit at a time here. So first of all, I wanted to ask you about your diploma.
We. We definitely yeah, show how long we've been in the industry when we say that that was the way to get started. I think um, so I would like to know your personal opinion. I know you can't like really answer fact based because, you know, you did yours quite a while ago, but. Do you think that studying, you know, the couple of years to get your diploma in photography is relevant today as it was back then?
I honestly couldn't tell you because I don't know what would be in a photography diploma these days. I think... What's missing, what was missing for me at the time and what I suspect is still missing from photography diplomas is how to actually make a living as a photographer. Cause I think they teach a lot of the technical stuff.
And I think the, the value of learning on film, which has kind of sat with me is this piece of getting it right in camera and being a bit more discerning. I mean, I'm just going to say, I'm going to say that. In theory, it makes you more discerning. I overshoot like a champ. So, we won't talk about discerning with pressing the shutter button.
However, I think it made me see in a different way. I think it made me more discerning. It made me more precise with getting stuff right, rather than relying on Post production, which my view on it, and this is just my opinion, is that everything is far too overly post produced these days. And we've got a lot of dog photography has become like newborn photography, where all the work looks the same because everyone's using the same editing techniques.
The Anghettis. This phase with newborns has kind of come into pet photography these days. I think maybe it's a slightly controversial thing to say, but I think it's very difficult to see an actual artist's work. If I look at all the work that's winning competitions these days, it all looks the same to me.
And you couldn't pick out one photographer's work from another. So I'm just going to preface that with maybe it's a bit controversial to say it, but that is my opinion. Well, that's what we're, that's what we're here for today, Emma, is your opinion. So that is welcomed. So what... Do you do, or what would you suggest that, you know, maybe up and coming pet photographers or people who are just new to photography in general could maybe do to make sure they don't kind of get caught up in that echo chamber and see themselves just looking left and right and copying if that's not too strong of a word, you know, everybody else's work.
Do you find yourself getting influenced by, you know, things outside? side of photography or just outside of pet photography? Or are you just not looking? So I don't look at what other people do at all. I don't look at what other photographers in South Africa are doing. I generally avoid it because I think it's one can get stuck in comparison.
And I think, you know, there's that phrase comparison is the thief of joy. And I think you can end up looking at other people's work and going, Oh, Mine isn't as good as that. I don't edit like that. Maybe I should be editing like that. And I, you know, occasionally I do it, I look at it and think, Oh, you know, maybe I should get better with my Photoshop techniques and maybe I should be editing more than I look at it and just think I hate editing.
I don't like sitting behind the computer. I'd rather be out shooting. So I tend. Not to look for the most part, I think there's a couple of things to share here is, I think, is making sure you're technically proficient. I remember somebody saying to me, and this is going back to when I was first doing my diploma.
And you know, we were just getting into digital photography. It doesn't matter if you take a rubbish photo, you can correct it in Photoshop. And I think that is part of the problem. And I think it's people learning their way around the camera. I think it's people looking at different ways of seeing. So I, I like to have a look at art.
I like to go to, but when I, if I'm in the UK, I like to go to the Tate Modern and have a shuffle round and go look at some of the modern art. You can have a look at lighting techniques from artists. I'll have a look at We struggle to get things like a latest Vogue magazine or a Harper's Bazaar or anything here.
That's not horribly out of date. So whenever I go to the UK, I come back with like hundreds of magazines and I'm just having a look at fashion photography and seeing what's happening with that. And what are the kind of trends that are going on there? And how can I take an influence from other areas of photography into my?
So I don't end up inadvertently copying somebody else, but I think it's having the courage to have a vision and run with it and try things out. Cause I think this is the problem when we're looking at what everybody else is doing, you can get suckered into, Oh, this is the way I have to shoot. And I don't think that's true.
Mm hmm. Yeah, I really love that. And actually that is a common theme that we hear like when this discussion does come up, it's usually these two couple of, I don't know suggestions, if you can say one, stop looking at other people's work, other photographers, or at least other local photographers work and to allow yourself to be inspired by other mediums of artwork or at least other photography genres as well.
And so, yeah, it makes, I mean, total sense that that's what you're doing as well. I actually recently had a chat with a well known pet photographer in the world. I'm not sure if these pieces that she's created have been released to the public yet, but basically they were absolutely gorgeous. And when I looked at them, there were photos of dogs and they looked in the similar style to how often you see ballerinas photographed with re sync re sync flash and movement of the dogs.
Anyway, you guys, hopefully you'll see them soon. And one day when there are released to the public, I will link to them in the show notes of this because I love the pieces. But I said to my friend, I said, I've never seen anything like this before and I've, I've never seen you share them anywhere. And she said, no, no, no, I've deliberately not because I don't want them to be copied.
Yeah. Yeah. And I can't blame her for that. And I just. I mean, then we spoke about like where her inspiration came from and everything. And it was exactly like you said, completely outside of pet photography. And really the images, they stood out and I have no doubt. She'll go on to win, you know, gold awards for them if they do get entered into something because they will stand out from every other image that's submitted.
And Emma, when I look at your work, I can certainly see that, you know, you're doing the same thing. You're, you're not looking left and right. It does have more of an editorial vibe. Your images, I would say, if I can use that. You know that wording which makes sense that you're looking at fashion magazines.
I think yeah. Yeah, and I think I think it's sorry Kirstie I think it's just to add to your point about your your friend who's making these images is I think invariably when you make work that's exciting and new people will copy you and I have Like I say, I don't look at what other people are doing and occasionally I'll have people who'll, who'll share a a local photographer and say, Oh, look what this person's doing, looks a bit familiar.
And you can look at it and go, Oh, that's annoying. Or you can say, okay, cool. It's time for me to up level now. And I think I tend to use it when people start to copy what I'm doing is to go, how can I differentiate again? What can I do differently with my next project? How can I. you know, take this to another level or go in a different direction.
I think it's, it's good to have a little bit of incentive to keep creating. So that's how I reframe it. Otherwise you'd spend the whole time just being really annoyed and it's a waste of energy. No, I, I totally agree with you, Emma, and I love that. And I mean, clearly you've been in business a long time, so you've seen all of these trends come and go.
And probably, yeah, like you've said, you've had people that start copying your style and all you can do is take it as a compliment, like you said, and then be like, okay, how do I do better? And that's what makes the industry grow, and that's how, that's what makes us, you know, be better all the time, I think is by, by exactly taking that as inspiration.
So I love that you're following that path as well. Now, there was. Heaps more, I mean, I could talk about this all day with you, but there was heaps more in that little intro you gave us that I wanted to get into. We're already approaching the end of the first half of the interview. So let's move along a little bit.
I wanted to ask you about that move from the UK to South Africa which interestingly, just recently we had another photographer on the show who'd done the same move. And she also used it as actually, anyway, I can't remember if it was the same country. It doesn't matter, but she'd also moved. Sorry, use the move as a way to, you know, redirect her, her business as well.
So tell us about, you know, first of all, was it only the fact that you were sick of weddings that you didn't launch them in South Africa or, you know, was it that you didn't see there was a market or what, what was the go with that? So I think weddings. There's always a market for weddings. I'm in the process of planning a wedding.
So I'm getting married next year and it's yeah interesting experience. Let's put it that way. So it wasn't thanks. It wasn't forced my second wedding. So I'm sort of lacking enthusiasm, but anyway I don't think there's ever not a market for wedding photography. It's such a huge industry. I had, I think if I, if I knew.
Back then, what I knew now, I'd have done weddings very differently and I probably wouldn't have hated them. I started doing very cheap weddings because I was learning and it's fine when, when there's not much skin in the game for someone who's paying you it doesn't really matter, does it, if the pictures aren't, you know, tip top, so I learnt effectively whilst being paid by clients and actually didn't have any unhappy clients, but I obviously I don't, I actually wouldn't, like I said, I wouldn't want to look at those initial pictures cause I'm sure they are shocking.
I, I started shooting weddings cause literally I saw it as a way of making money as a photographer. I. When I was at college doing my diploma, I was shooting on black and white film, and I wanted to be a documentary photographer. So what's always, what hooked me into photography was telling stories through the medium of photography.
And I was very influenced as a photographer called W Eugene Smith, who, who shot for Life Magazine. And he went out and he Brought really important stories, humanitarian stories to the fore. And I'm, I was like, I want to be like W Eugene Smith. This is what I want to do. I want to do a, make a difference in the world as photographer.
And then I ended up shooting weddings, which with the greatest respect to people getting married. It's not really adding to the global collective as a whole and. It was just a way of making money for me and I, you know, and I think when I started it was exciting being paid for doing something I enjoyed, but I was doing quite low end weddings and shooting in the UK for anyone who lives in the UK will know the weather is hit and miss at the best.
And. I got very frustrated with going to a wedding and kind of planning out my shot list and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this and then it would rain and you'd be stuck with a, you know, indoors in a dark venue with a flash gun because that's the kit I had. And everyone looking at you like you're going to perform a miracle.
And it just got so stressful for me. And I just thought I actually hate this. And I got to the point of being so busy. I was Sometimes doing a wedding on a Friday and a Saturday and a Sunday. I was, and I just literally worked myself into the ground with it. And moving here was an opportunity to not have to do them anymore.
I also got divorced as well. In the middle of my wedding career, and I think it just. It just killed the whole thing, the whole thing for me. So when I moved here, I thought I just actually, I can't. It's, I think every fiber of my being was like, please don't, please don't make me go out and do this anymore.
Cause I just, I can't, I physically just hated it. So. But of course, you know, when you're running a photography business and I've been a full, you know, chose to become a full time photographer, you've got to make money at it. So you kind of have to go where the cash is. I've got a bit of a better balance now with making money from it and doing creative stuff.
So I, you know, cause I've, I'm sure we'll talk about it. I've changed my business model in a very big way to make it more profitable with less Customer work. Yeah. So I got here and I thought, well, I'll, I'll do wedding and not do weddings. I'll do, you know, baby and family photography because portrait photography is much more relaxed.
I think, and it, I enjoy it a lot more. And like I said, the dogs happened by. accident. But the weddings just, honestly, I got to the stage where I just thought I'm actually hating every minute of this. And when you're in a space where you're not enjoying what you're doing, it's impossible to be creative.
And I think photography is something where you're, it's not just the process of taking the pictures. It's the experience the client has. Working with you and something like a wedding is so special to people. It might not be special to you as a photographer, if you're shooting like three or four of them a week, it needs to be special for that client.
And I just thought I'm so out of integrity with this is it's not really fair to the clients for me to be like, God, I'm just showing up here to take the money and I'm going to do the best I can, but I don't want to be here. It's. It's, it's awful. And I think, you know, as, as someone who's about to get married, I would be horrified.
My photographer pitched up with that attitude. She's managed to convey that she loves weddings still, which is fine. But yeah, it just, I, I, and I think life is too short to be doing a job you hate. Sorry, that was a really long explanation for that question there. No, no, that's good. I was, it's actually, I mean, it's truthful and something that maybe we don't mention all that much often, you know, we always want to say that, you know.
It's great that we get to turn our passion into an income and everything, but it's nice to hear the very true reality of it. Now your issue was particularly with weddings, which makes sense because, you know, you were doing them the hardest way possible by the sounds and also you went through the divorce, I guess that, that made it very tricky.
But even, you know, if you've been photographing pets for. 30 years or even three years if you've been doing it and not making any money, not you in particular, I mean the audience then perhaps you find, you know, you would find that you're getting to the same point as well. What, I mean, you've changed genres to deal with that, but if it was pecs that you were sick of, what would you do?
You know, would you take a break or would you just be like, you know what, then I've obviously burnt myself out, I need to put my prices up or would you change genres again if you get to this point with pets? I, I think you, I think there's a few, a few things in here. So I think you have to look at why am I fed up of this would be the first question I would ask.
Is it that I hate pets all of a sudden, which I find, I think would be. Jeez, that's well, that would be rough, wouldn't it? I hate pets. I got attacked on a photo shoot by two Rottweilers 10 years ago, and I'm still doing it. So I'm not sure that anyway, so we won't get into that. But so I think you've got to have a look at why have I fallen out of love with this?
Is it genuinely because I am hating what I'm doing? I think that the, the weddings is such a different thing as well, because it was, it's such a long day. It's such a huge amount of time. And I think if I'm honest about what I. What I started to hate about it, it wasn't the photography aspect of it. It was the people management aspect of it.
It was, I think, it was having to round people up. It was people not really being that interested in, on the day of what I was doing. And I'm thinking if you... I it, I'm gonna be the first person you shout at when you see these pictures. If I can't get you enthusiastic about this, I had, I remember somebody messaged me and said, my mother-in-law is really upset 'cause she wasn't in enough of the pictures.
And I'm thinking, you know what? Why is it my responsibility if your mother-in-law wasn't there when the pictures were happening? But that's what I started to get fed up of is that it became. It's like firefighting the whole time of, do I have everybody here? Can I get everybody out of the bar into this picture?
What am I going to do if it rains? You know, it was all of those things that I think it was the management part of it that I started to hate. To come to your point about, sorry, um, and I think also this, that what you mentioned there was if someone's been shooting pets for three years and not making any money, I'd ask what the hell are you doing that you're not making any money because you need to have a look at how you're running your.
business, because you've got something wrong in the business model. And if you can't make money photographing pets, changing genres isn't going to help you make money if you don't know how to make money from photography. Yes, exactly. Great points. Emma, I want to go into more of this because you mentioned.
That you've changed your business model recently to make more money. So that ties in really beautiful, but sorry, guys, I am going to save this for the premium members. So let's discuss that in part two of this episode for now, we're going to wrap up part one before we do that, Emma, how can the list.
Not find you so you can find me online. So my website is Emma O'Brien dot com. I am E-M-M-A-O-B-R-I-E n.com. I am at Emma O'Brien photo on Instagram and at Emma O'Brien photos on Facebook. Perfect. And I will link to all three of those in the show notes, guys. So if you did miss it or you've messed up the spelling, don't worry.
Just jump into the show notes. This is season 15 episode. sO you can just search 1507 in the search bar or head on over to thepeppetrographersclub. com slash the dash podcast. And you will find it there by searching Emma. That's it for part one of this episode. If you are a member, of course you can continue listening to part two in the member zone or via your private RSS feed in your favorite podcast player.
Don't forget if you're not a member yet, you can join today. It is just 10 bucks a month. Club membership includes loads of perks and bonus content, and it helps me continue to put out great content like what Emma has shared so far. So head on over to thepetphotographersclub. com slash join to find out more.
Thanks for listening to the Pet Photographers Club. To subscribe to the podcast, check out other episodes, and keep up to date, head to thepetphotographersclub. com.